Re: Naked Bible 149: Q&A with Fern, Audrey, and Beth
As Heiser warns up front, this is not a model for ministry. Rather, this interview aims to answer basic questions about how the Enemy and his allies operate. What is their aim in driving humans to Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID, formally known as schizophrenia) and Trauma-based Mind Control? What strategy is behind their efforts prevent recovery?
In order to declare the answers to those questions, we must establish a the identity of the players involved. Also, what follows here assumes you have heard/read podcast episodes 68 and 120.
I’m not going to simply echo Heiser with a summary, but add my own experience, as well.
The whole thing rests on deception. Deception was the root of the Fall in the Garden, the work of the Watchers and Nephilim, and was the substance behind the Tower of Babel and the rebellion that led to idolatry. All of them are lies about who God is and what He has said and done. More to the point, they are lies about our role in His plans.
Sadly, that deception infests the likes of traditional western deliverance or exorcism ministries. That whole thing is based on a false mythology about how the Enemy operates. The net result of most deliverance ministries can make things worse for the victims, reaffirming a false authority system that binds people in Darkness.
The focus of genuine redemption is the person in their context, not some wild fantasies about the Spirit Realm. The sin of the Watchers was to cross the boundary between the seen and unseen realms. It is impossible for us to then reach back across that boundary from our realm and pretend to command beings on the other side. The solution is to deconstruct the lies people believe about themselves and the false authority of beings we cannot see.
The power of the Apostles to deliver was not by claiming authority, but by disclaiming a false authority that ruled the victims. Victims of trauma and DID are not possessed; they are overwhelmed by deception. The Enemy has disrupted the natural process of human development. Some of the damage may be quite real, requiring either a miracle healing and/or medical treatment. In other cases, the Enemy takes advantage of natural disabilities that were already there. But the real problem is the lies people believe about themselves.
The Devil is the Master of Darkness simply by virtue of being the first to rebel, to reject God’s declared purpose and plans. He is not the highest rank, however it is you imagine such a thing. He has the support of beings who were surely higher than him, but they agree with his fundamental complaint that God cares too much about humans. Humans were granted the very high mission of imaging God in Creation without having the high rank that other beings on God’s staff held. It would require the higher beings to honor God’s imagine in them.
This the foundation of the dispute between God and the Devil. As a result, the Devil and his partisans have agreed together to destroy humans. They don’t have that power, but are trying to turn the humans against God. God has responded by giving the Devil a limited grant of authority to try his hand at provoking humans to do things that would require God to destroy them. Part of this game is that we are placed in mortal bodies. We are born into a deception about our situation as mortal creatures, which is how we got into this situation. Christ redeemed us, but it’s not enough to simply buy into that intellectually. The process includes the necessity of us dying first to our fleshly concerns, and then being relieved of our fleshly nature at God’s timing.
We rediscover our eternal identity in Christ. However, the process of rediscovery can be particularly difficult for some us. Heiser refers to the “divine council worldview” while we tend to use the term “thesis of the Unseen Realm” — there’s not much difference between the two terms. The point is that this is the biblical cosmology, if you will. There is more than enough academic evidence of what the Second Temple Judaism taught about such things, and we can see clear evidence that Jesus and the writers of the New Testament also believed some of that background, including it in their teaching.
Deliverance and exorcism ministries carry a cartoonish view demons. The thesis of the Unseen Realm pegs them as very low-level “bastard spirits” (from the Dead Sea Scrolls). They are disembodied spirits of the Nephilim and Rephaim from the Bible. These are half-breed children of genuine elohim, the Watchers who crossed the boundary to come to earth and cohabit with humans. Both Watchers and Nephilim are spirit beings who can incarnate under certain conditions, but the latter are lower rank and lower power.
Both groups are condemned to the Abyss until the Last Days. They’ll be released briefly prior to the Day of Judgment, for which the details are unknown at this point. They lost their actual powers over Creation when they were confined to the Abyss. For now, their only power is deception, same as the Devil. Indeed, they are bound to honor the principles of Biblical Law. If you don’t buy their lies and obey the Word, they cannot do much to you.
Side note: In their eagerness to keep their influence of humans, the spirits of the Nephilim will submit to conjuring. They will do everything they can to share their false lore — as if they would ever tell the truth about the situation and processes in the Spirit Realm.
However, there are members of the rebellion who are not in prison. The Divine Councilors who allied with Satan and are responsible for the deception of the Gentile nations remain on staff in Heaven. They have genuine power; they are the real trouble. This is why idolatrous cult folks can do some really strange things. It is this corrupted power that Christ broke on the Cross, so that we can be delivered from the dominion of the rebellious elohim. We don’t belong to the nations and their idolatries any more; we belong to Christ.
The resurrection of Christ broke the power of death and the power of idolatry. Do you understand that every human government is bound under idolatry? Do you understand why the truth of Christ’s Kingdom is a threat to every human government? For example, within the Imperial Roman bureaucracy, there were officials who understood this teaching up to a point. They understood it well enough to know that followers of Christ might be generally cooperative with the process of human government, but their ultimate allegiance was to something they considered much higher. The only way to combat this was to demand Christians engage in idolatrous worship under threat of execution.
Even if a given government lacks that level of understanding, you can bet the elohim know. They will steer their human servants into paths that will eventually threaten genuine Christian faith and the biblical understanding of the Unseen Realm. Indeed, the elohim have steered the US government, among others, to engage in efforts at mind control. I’m guessing the bulk of clients treated by Fern, Audrey and Beth are victims of government programs designed to test the limits of how to create and use people suffering DID and trauma.
People who work to share these teachings are at some risk of retribution from the elohim. Pray for them that they will be ready to move forward without flinching.
Final note: The Watchers and Nephilim cannot be redeemed. The rebel elohim have already been sentenced, but remain free until the Day of Judgment. They have been rejected and a major element in their wickedness with us is making us believe we are rejected, that we cannot be redeemed. The western doctrine of guilt before the law is a primary element of that campaign. It’s also a fundamental element in trauma abuse to make people believe that God hates them, that they deserve all the evil that happens to them. You would hardly be surprised that such victims are the source of a pernicious doctrine that demons can be redeemed. This has captured and destroyed many ministries led by people who falsely imagine that they can talk the demons into confessing Christ as Lord.
Yes, demons would love to be redeemed, to rejoin the Eternal Family of God, but they already know it can’t happen. They seek desperately to sucker us into talking to them for any purpose at all. As Heiser and these ladies point out, there is nothing to gain by that. Don’t even try to reach into the Unseen Realm. Just work with the victims through the love of Christ. The biblical doctrine of redemption demands that we focus on loving His human children face-to-face. Redemption is a personal process.
I recommend you listen to those three podcasts for yourself.
